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rommer
11802 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 03 2010 : 18:59:09
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| Up, I mean like how do you take a leak with damn thing down anyway? |
WLC - We love Champlin's! |
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Billylll
USA
8070 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2010 : 19:18:54
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quote:
Originally posted by captddis
I assume most of you have bilge float switches installed? How often do you inspect the wiring on the FL switch? The wiring usually sits in bilge water 24/7, broken insulation on the switch wiring is the biggest cause of stray current corrosion. DC stray current is much more destructive than AC.
You will commonly find AC chargers and or inverters find a path through the ground to DC in many boats.
I inspect my bilge and under deck wiring everytime I go to the boat. I also have the proper connectors and sealent (glue based heat shrink tubing) over the wires to the float switches. The real plus is I have a dry bilge thanks to re-routing the rear cockpit engine door'tracks and all cockpit boxes hosed overboard instead of dumping in the bilge like the original manufacture did. In addition since I'm anal about my boat all rod holders were removed the holes were glassed over, this used to be a big source of water entering the cockpit built in seat lockers and the boxes that had drain holes into the bilge, no more they dump overboard via smooth hose and countersunk shower type Marlon drains and fittings.
Bill |
WirelessOne,
40 Mainship
Sedan Bridge
Little Egg, N.J. |
Edited by - Billylll on Mar 03 2010 19:40:44 |
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boatbum
USA
11028 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2010 : 19:44:19
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| Leave it down when done. If the S.O. comes in for a landing at 3 a.m. and the runway ain't lit it isn't gonna be pretty. And you WILL suffer. |
Dan |
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JLC
USA
809 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2010 : 19:51:05
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I wonder if there is some type of meter you can dip in the water around your boat to see the "lectricity".
Can you do that with an ohms meter? Positive in the water and a ground somewhere?
I hear that at my OLD marina...the dude that hooks all the floating docks together is a hack at wiring. Something about mixing up the wires...all of them just hooked up at random. |
Holes that I currently throw money into; ..and have problems with :)
34' Sea Ray Sundancer SOLD!!! Bub Bye.... Bub Bye now
32' Galaxy Sloop ~For Sale~
21' Chris Craft Bow Rider
15' 1970 Sidewinder
13' Mad River Canoe
12' 1966 Gruman 9.9hp
11'4 Zodiac FR340 9.9
9'2 Zodiac 2hp Honda
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Starry Night
USA
822 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2010 : 19:52:13
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| Doesn't matter to me up or down. I just let it hang of the side. Much easier and cleaner. |
Bob
Starry Night
2001 44' Trojan 440 Express Yacht
1985 21' Chris Craft Scorpion
1988 34' Carver Montego (Sold)
"Anything's gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there." Captain Ron
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Freddy
USA
3765 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2010 : 19:59:33
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Leaving the seat up or down, hmmmmmmmm???
That would probably depend if I were sitting on it or not! 
Related to the original post, it does bother me when a slip-mate unplugs their power cord then throwing it up onto the dock WITHOUT taking the time to unplug or turn the breaker off!
Fred |
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be
fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same. "
" Ronald Reagan" |
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captddis
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2010 : 20:05:15
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| i suggested the poll in a tounge in cheek manner. That said a lot of men sit down for #1 while underway so they don't miss the mark as the boat rocks. |
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rommer
11802 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2010 : 20:29:18
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quote:
Originally posted by captddis
i suggested the poll in a tounge in cheek manner. That said a lot of men sit down for #1 while underway so they don't miss the mark as the boat rocks.
Real men never sit! 
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WLC - We love Champlin's! |
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370 Motoryacht
USA
123 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2010 : 20:39:57
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| You guys use the head while underway? I just stand on my swim platform while at 23 MPH and let it go... Is this bad? |
Edited by - 370 Motoryacht on Mar 03 2010 20:41:45 |
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pdecat
USA
23651 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 02:09:48
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370: quote:
I just stand on my swim platform while at 23 MPH and let it go... Is this bad?
No the swim platform is bad, stand on the bow facing forward and aim upwards it is the test of real boaters. |
Bruce
legal disclaimer;
posts are amateur opinion only and should not be relied on as reasonable, safe, proper or in any way recommended.
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stmbtwle
8769 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 07:13:37
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quote:
Originally posted by 370 Motoryacht
You guys use the head while underway? I just stand on my swim platform while at 23 MPH and let it go... Is this bad?
That would have been about the time my Dad would have hit the throttle... |
Willie... She's a tired old gal but she's paid for! (several times over) |
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370 Motoryacht
USA
123 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 07:58:12
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| I figured there was a better way! |
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circaburns1
Australia
69 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 08:38:28
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Ok let's just settle this once and for all.
Leaving a power cord in the water is just plain stupid and irresponsible. There are just so many things wrong with this idea that if you don't know say 5 you are aren't trying.
Worried about ants. Get another solution.
If the cord is in good shape it just looks bad .. probably no damage being done - are you kidding me with that comment?
Shore cords are made to withstand water but not to be left in the water. The warning label on the cord when you buy it clearly says that.
Stating that's if it's good for ice-eaters it's good for power cords just shows ignorance. Sorry if this sounds like a grumpy old man or its flaming but I can't believe a number of the comments made in response to what I believe is a good question and poll. |
Robert |
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In the know
5708 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 08:53:52
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My plug in for shore powwer is two slips away. I find the best solution is to plug in shore side and turn the power on. Then, dive in the water and run the cord under the three boats to get to mine. Surface and plug in boat side.
This way, when I leave, I just un plug from the boat and drop the cord in the water. When returning, with a boat hook I lift it out and plug back in.
Works fine for me. |
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2% of people will fight for the freedoms endured by 100%
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psalzer
USA
6208 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 08:56:22
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| ITK, and the good part about that process is you only have to do it once :)!! |
Pete |
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carver 2557
Canada
6799 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 09:11:28
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| I'm old and I leave the seat down so I don't get a rap up the side of the head from the Admiral... |
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Capt. Bill1
USA
5625 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 11:27:49
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"If the cord is in good shape it just looks bad .. probably no damage being done - are you kidding me with that comment?"
OK, so you've got at least two if not three layers of insulation between the water and the bare wire on a good cord. If you keep the cord clean and in good shape, what exactly is going to happen if you leave it in the water part time or even full time?
And do you really believe the cords on ice eater are made of some special super extra water resistant plastic?
"Shore cords are made to withstand water but not to be left in the water. The warning label on the cord when you buy it clearly says that."
What is on a warning label is for the most part these days just a CYA disclaimer. It can take decades for a cheap plastic jug to break down in the water and sun. My guess is the average shore cord would last at least that long. |
The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Creationism is to science what storks are to obstetrics.
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jmeirhofer
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 11:39:48
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Questions about the cords insulating cover. Is it an impermeable material? Could long term (or even short term) exposure to salt-water cause the salt to seep through to the wire there for causing corrosion? Would the corrosion accellerate the breakdown of the insulation from the inside possible shorting itself out? How can you tell by looking whether the portion of the cord in the water is servicable and has not broken down with a potential to be a shock hazard? Lastly, if someones' cord is shorting out causing the circuits to trip because it is in the water and that in turn shuts my power off causing my food to rot, who is liable? The marina or the person with the boat?
As a side note, I believe home owners associations got their start because some people like there displayed areas kept tight and some don't. Generally more do than don't and the divide between them seems to be pretty great. No happy median. |
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vic33004
USA
1094 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 14:03:49
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common now did everyone take pascal's bait here...........lol. common folks, is it a good idea to use something in a way its not designed for?........lol.
surely no one agrees that leaving a normal shore power cord purposely in the water is a good idea. and we all know that OS type cords are made for damp locations or they woulda been killin all kinds of folks every time it rained. there are cables designed to be submerged in water but your typical shore power cable is not. |
Vic33004
02 Regal 4260 |
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captddis
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 16:01:12
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quote:
Originally posted by circaburns1
Ok let's just settle this once and for all.
Leaving a power cord in the water is just plain stupid and irresponsible. There are just so many things wrong with this idea that if you don't know say 5 you are aren't trying.
Worried about ants. Get another solution.
If the cord is in good shape it just looks bad .. probably no damage being done - are you kidding me with that comment?
Shore cords are made to withstand water but not to be left in the water. The warning label on the cord when you buy it clearly says that.
Stating that's if it's good for ice-eaters it's good for power cords just shows ignorance. Sorry if this sounds like a grumpy old man or its flaming but I can't believe a number of the comments made in response to what I believe is a good question and poll.
Since you are an expert on wiring, explain the difference in a typical shore cord or a ice eater cord or a cord on underwater lights that typically are installed under docks.
I regularly deal with all of the above and can't find a difference in the cord material.
While we are at it what about the wiring on bilge pumps and float switches. They stay immeresed in bilge water for years. What is their secret material?? |
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In the know
5708 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 16:09:28
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| You shouldn't be asking such questions - this was settled once and for all! |
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2% of people will fight for the freedoms endured by 100%
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PascalG
USA
17076 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 16:16:33
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one thing which is sure is that if the cord stays in the water for any period of time, it will be slimy and disgusting to handle... that alone is a reason to be tidy.
if the cord is in good shape, no nicks, then i personally don't see how it can cause any corrosion issue. |
Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
2007 Sandbarhopper 13
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captddis
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 16:20:32
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[quote]Originally posted by In the know
You shouldn't be asking such questions - this was settled once and for all!
[/qu
Really? I missed the part where the official construction of the cords were stated. |
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In the know
5708 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 16:21:45
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No, not really, I was just quoting from circaburns1 original post.
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2% of people will fight for the freedoms endured by 100%
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Cpt. Harold
USA
488 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 16:22:31
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And he comes over and tosses words like "stupid" and "irresponsible".
Bravo !!! Or should I say "e-bravado" ???
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captddis
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 16:23:40
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quote:
Originally posted by PascalG
one thing which is sure is that if the cord stays in the water for any period of time, it will be slimy and disgusting to handle... that alone is a reason to be tidy.
if the cord is in good shape, no nicks, then i personally don't see how it can cause any corrosion issue.
So what is the arguement about? Leaving a cord in the water shows a lack of care and will result in buying a new cord after all the growth fouls it, but is not a big risk to safety. |
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captddis
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 16:25:39
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quote:
Originally posted by In the know
No, not really, I was just quoting from circaburns1 original post.
Sorry, The dry humor went over my head. |
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Cpt. Harold
USA
488 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 16:29:38
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Some people just don't know how to argue or defend a point without
resorting to insults. They just can't. |
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Capt. Bill1
USA
5625 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 16:56:58
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| Hey Harold, didn't get the chance to stop in Boqueron this trip. Sorry I missed you. If you get over here to Palmas let me know. |
The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Creationism is to science what storks are to obstetrics.
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Billylll
USA
8070 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 17:14:39
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Well I learned to respect DC and AC voltages at a very young age. Combine that with water and various vessels with unknown bonding of through hulls, Dyna-plates and you have a recipie for a disaster when you add AC current and cords in the water.
Pascal is a highly regarded member and has always been very helpful to me. We have disagreed at times but in the end he was usually right.
There is no need for a good thread to deteriorate.
Bill |
WirelessOne,
40 Mainship
Sedan Bridge
Little Egg, N.J. |
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MIke F
USA
1112 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 17:39:38
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There is another less obvious reason to keep a shorepower cord out of the water. Most marina waters are contaminated with oils from engines,rotting plants and marine life etc. These oils can and do permeate the wire insulation swelling it as well as degrading it. As a result the cord insulation can be much more rapidly degraded in water.
Incidentally, there is a difference between the electrical insulation and dielectric properties of shorepower cord. The dielectric properties are due to the polarity of the molecules in the cord insulation and act to lower the electric field within it. The insulation properties refer to the materials resistance to the conduction of electrical charges. |
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jamikito
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 17:59:39
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quote:
Originally posted by psalzer
quote:
Originally posted by jamikito
In every marina there is a busy body looking around to criticize others. Unplugging someones boat can get expensive if there is perishable food on board.
PascalG, why don't you go repair the problems on your own boat, instead of wasting your time starting bs threads like this one. Man, get a life.
Jamikito
Pascal is anything BUT a busybody!! He has probably forgot more than many of us will ever know...the thread was not a waste of time .. you however ???????? Pascal did not recommend unplugging anything!! Perhaps a little reading comprehension is in order!!
Anyone can be a parrot, and repeat what they hear and/or read. Those that can...do, those that can't...talk about it. Watching others doing the work hardly makes one an expert. |
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PascalG
USA
17076 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 18:04:08
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easy to hide behind an anonymous user name...
but since you are obviously such an expert, we all look forward to positive, helpful posts that will educate "lesser" members.
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
2007 Sandbarhopper 13
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Edited by - PascalG on Mar 04 2010 18:10:41 |
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jamikito
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 18:44:22
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quote:
Originally posted by PascalG
easy to hide behind an anonymous user name...
but since you are obviously such an expert, we all look forward to positive, helpful posts that will educate "lesser" members.
A poll on electrical cords in the water because it bothers you, is a helpful post?
When I have something to say techincally it will be from experience, not from hearsay, or google.
Speaking of technical problems, did you get that smoking engine repaired yet? How about those 2 GPS units that have the same problem, the ones freezing up, that don't matter because they only mess up for a short period of time. Too bad your not a moderator over on this site, you could chase the good guys with real experience and knowledge away like you did in the other site. You people think this guy is so great, go to a couple of other sites and readwhat they think of him. |
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Gregory S
USA
7178 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 18:46:48
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| Well, he has a 66 foot "Technical". He must be an expert. |
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Cpt. Harold
USA
488 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 18:54:30
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Pascal. You're OK on my book.
jami(who)???
I think you are overextending your welcome, buddy. |
Edited by - Cpt. Harold on Mar 04 2010 18:55:47 |
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Cpt. Harold
USA
488 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 19:00:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Capt. Bill1
Hey Harold, didn't get the chance to stop in Boqueron this trip. Sorry I missed you. If you get over here to Palmas let me know.
No prob. man welcome to the island and enjoy !!! |
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seahawk215
USA
1164 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 19:10:27
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quote:
Originally posted by jmeirhofer
Questions about the cords insulating cover. Is it an impermeable material? Could long term (or even short term) exposure to salt-water cause the salt to seep through to the wire there for causing corrosion? Would the corrosion accellerate the breakdown of the insulation from the inside possible shorting itself out? How can you tell by looking whether the portion of the cord in the water is servicable and has not broken down with a potential to be a shock hazard? Lastly, if someones' cord is shorting out causing the circuits to trip because it is in the water and that in turn shuts my power off causing my food to rot, who is liable? The marina or the person with the boat?
As a side note, I believe home owners associations got their start because some people like there displayed areas kept tight and some don't. Generally more do than don't and the divide between them seems to be pretty great. No happy median.
Thanks for reminding me why I would never buy a home in a homeowners association and why I bought a home on a canal. I can leave my shore power cord in the water if I want. If it is in the water it will more than likely be out at low tide anyway. I have enough problems with the stupid city ordinances without the marina etiquette police. |
Randy Arline
1986 Chris Craft
360 Commander
Miss KimberLeighann
1971 Boston Whaler 13'
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Andy65
163 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 19:15:43
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People let them dip in the water on a non floating dock because if they took the slack out of them for a high tide, they could be strained in a low, low tide which is much more dangerous. A solution is a Y stick on the boat to raise the cord if you have a rod holder or means to hold the stick.
If the cord is worn to the point it will shock people if dipped in the water, then it will zap everyone when out of the water in a rain while coiled on the dock. Look under most floating docks and you will see wires. That worries me more. |
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Cpt. Harold
USA
488 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 19:24:31
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quote:
Originally posted by JLC
I wonder if there is some type of meter you can dip in the water around your boat to see the "lectricity".
Can you do that with an ohms meter? Positive in the water and a ground somewhere?
I hear that at my OLD marina...the dude that hooks all the floating docks together is a hack at wiring. Something about mixing up the wires...all of them just hooked up at random.
There is a method for measuring the DC and AC current flowing through the green (Gnd) wire that will tell you if you have galvanic/stray current problems. Over .001 amp AC or .0001 amp DC measured current means trouble.
Check with a local boat electrician he should be able to do the work.
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Britanic
USA
807 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 19:31:42
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"You people think this guy is so great, go to a couple of other sites and readwhat they think of him."
Holy sh*t. My RO number is not much older than your (still a newbie) but damn, nice way to enter the Forum, with 4 posts to boot.
We just had some discussion on what a troll is in another thread...Is this a good example???
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HOGAN
USA
17837 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 19:46:55
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quote:
Originally posted by jamikito
You people think this guy is so great, go to a couple of other sites and readwhat they think of him.
Wow, someone's panties are on too tight! |
Hogan
1999 Trojan 440 Express
2005 Scout 175 Sportfish
Achilles LEX 96
How's that "change" working out for you???
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seabug
USA
246 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 19:51:28
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| A few years ago, a 12 y/o boy took a swim while his dad was getting the boat ready for departure; it was learned too late that a neighbor-boater had let the 50 amp cord fall into the water. The boy was electrocuted. Fresh water is a weak electrolyte, but salt water is supper ionic. |
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rommer
11802 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 20:36:27
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seabug
I'm guessing that the END of the cord fell in the water in that horrific case. We are talking about the insulated part of the cord.
jamikito
I've never told anyone to pack up and take a hike and I'm not going to start now but I'd like to. Sit back, take a breath and read up here for a while. See if this type of forum is a fit for your style. It may not be since we don't treat each other like you are treating people here.
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WLC - We love Champlin's! |
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KiDa
USA
12800 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 20:57:34
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| Wasn't there a poster on BUS driving a 60 something Technical? |
____________
Best Regards,
David
Saint Max
'99 330 Sundancer
==========
Capitalism is to this administration what Judaism was to the Third Reich.
-- Me |
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Billylll
USA
8070 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 21:07:25
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Getting back on track I have an ice eater in my shop tomorrow I will look at the cords and see if I can pull the cable manufacture and UL information. I will check the specifications against a shorepower cords from the cable manufacture website for dielectric prperties and type, voltage and environmental ranges, I will do the same with a spare 30amp cord I have. I'm half tempted to go out tonight and get it but I'm to busy watching Johnny Knoxville make himself a new home here.
Bill |
WirelessOne,
40 Mainship
Sedan Bridge
Little Egg, N.J. |
Edited by - Billylll on Mar 04 2010 21:08:18 |
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PeteMrrs
USA
2435 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 21:17:57
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| I think jami has an ax to grind. Just does'nt appear to have the bollards to do it one on one with Pascal. |
"I golf in the mid 80's, . . . . Anything higher than that and I'm in the pool." |
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psalzer
USA
6208 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 21:34:35
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"Anyone can be a parrot, and repeat what they hear and/or read. Those that can...do, those that can't...talk about it. Watching others doing the work hardly makes one an expert."
Jamikito ... Not off to a good start are you?? You mention what people hear or read .. apparantly you have a reading problem of your own. You mentioned Pascal unplugging power cords .. where did you read that?? Looks as though your future here may be short.
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Pete |
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KiDa
USA
12800 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 21:37:02
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I am not at all familiar with dielectric other than what I have read since seeing the word in this post and determining it is more than some sort of grease.
Question:
Would it be better to have the wires within a shore power cord twisted like CAT "X" or POTS wire in the home rather than straight as they are purchased from the manufacturer? |
____________
Best Regards,
David
Saint Max
'99 330 Sundancer
==========
Capitalism is to this administration what Judaism was to the Third Reich.
-- Me |
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Cpt. Harold
USA
488 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2010 : 21:50:58
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quote:
Originally posted by KiDa
I am not at all familiar with dielectric other than what I have read since seeing the word in this post and determining it is more than some sort of grease.
Question:
Would it be better to have the wires within a shore power cord twisted like CAT "X" or POTS wire in the home rather than straight as they are purchased from the manufacturer?
Good question but in my opinion the extra length of cable due to a tight twist will give you no extra magnetic shielding at 60Hz and will surely increase manufacturing costs. Also to consider (although little)is the increased ohmic resistances from the extra length.
Speaking of twisting, it seems there is a slight twist on the individual cables and the reinforcing rope as manufactured. I'll get back to you on that. |
Edited by - Cpt. Harold on Mar 04 2010 21:53:33 |
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Topic |
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Shorepower cords dipping in water