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SCORPIO
USA
2021 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 07 2010 : 07:41:52
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I thought I'd put this in a new thread, the submerged shore power cord thread got me thinking that I need to make some changes to my boat. First some background, my '89 Sea Ray 300DA has the shore power connector locate on the port side about a third of the way foreward of the stern. The power panel is directly behind this. At my slip, I back in and that puts the power pedestal at the starboard corner of the transom. In order to get the cord to the inlet on the boat I have to attach it to the dock and run across the slip and down the finger and then into the connector. Very high tides(non floating docks) sometimes cause a long section of my cord to be underwater. I've never liked this and the other thread has prompted me to start thinking about a better solution. I'd like to relocate or install a second shore power connector on my transom on the starboard side so I can run a short cord from the pedestal to the boat without the problem of dipping the cord at high tides.
Now the question, can I install another inlet and run the cable to the power panel and still leave the old inlet in place (in case I need it at another dock)? Would a swithc be required? Is there a maximum distance from the panel to the inlet? Is there a requirement for any kind of breaker within a certain distance of a power inlet? I don't want to creat a new problem in solving the first one. I'd probablly have to increase the wire size running to the second inlet.
All you power gurus give me some advise, thanks.
Forgot to mention, boat is 30A no generator. |
Chris USPS AP |
Edited by - SCORPIO on Mar 07 2010 07:57:37 |
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The Other Gary
Canada
6139 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2010 : 08:10:53
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A second inlet can be added with a selector switch like this. It has a sliding lockout so that only one can be live at the same time.
The labels could be changed so that it reads inlet 1 inlet 2.
If your run is long I believe you must add a breaker like a push button breaker within a foot or two of the inlet. The exact run lenght escapes me but I think it is around 10 feet or less that requires the breaker at the inlet.
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Gary Peck 1997 Bayliner 3988 MY, twin 330 Cummins
It is my firm and studied intention to live forever,,,,so far I'm on track |
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PascalG
USA
17076 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2010 : 09:42:07
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Gary is right although I think it's 8 '. Or is it six? In any case you need a breaker, they come in a water proof fitting that looks like a shore power fitting
at the panel you put in a set of breaker with safety slide as show or a rotary switch. If you don't then the blades with hot on the unused inlet. Could be painful... |
Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
2007 Sandbarhopper 13
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Cpt. Harold
USA
488 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2010 : 13:03:03
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If your boat has a single 30A connection then Gary's suggestion is an excellent one.
The selector system is in itself 2 breakers so it will provide ample protection.
Just use one "less" cable gauge number, (One step bigger) for your new connection,
(to cover the increased distance looses) make sure the new connector is on a vertical
surface not exposed to spray or wave action while at rest or navigating, and if possible, protect from rain water too. This "front-back" shore power selector should be installed
at or near the power panel.
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SCORPIO
USA
2021 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2010 : 18:13:42
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Thanks, that confirms what I thought. I'm thinking of installing that selector inside the cabin at the power panel where the blank is for the generator switch that my boat doesn't have. Pascal, do you have any links to that waterproof breaker you mentioned? I'll look in some catalogs to see what comes up.
Thanks again. |
Chris USPS AP |
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jtybt15
USA
21108 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2010 : 18:33:01
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| Tell you the truth, I don't think you will be increasing the run at all...don't think an increase in size is needed. 10AWG/30 amp less than 50'...could be wrong, though. |
Charlie
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Billylll
USA
8070 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2010 : 19:17:18
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I know if you go to the Silverton thread ask the guys with 90's boats there is an ex-employee (retired) who bought their NOS parts he sells. I have a Mainship but they are pretty much the same boat. I bought a new double outdoor rated 30AMP panel. Mine was a double breaker one for each 30A leg. I'm pretty sure they were available on the smaller Silvertons with 1 30amp leg.
Bill |
WirelessOne,
40 Mainship
Sedan Bridge
Little Egg, N.J. |
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Shadowcruzr
USA
10233 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2010 : 07:28:12
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From the shore power inlet, the first breaker can be no more than 10 feet away. 10 gauge wire will work just fine for up to 30 amps.
You need some way of protecting the off side shore inlet from being back fed power from the on side inlet, be it a breaker selector as shown above or the dreaded rotary switch or any heavy duty 30-50 amp capable selector. |
Paul
ETC, USCG, Ret
Dispite the suicide bombers and the burning desire to kill infidels, we are a peaceful religion... |
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Cpt. Harold
USA
488 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2010 : 07:28:57
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quote:
Originally posted by jtybt15
Tell you the truth, I don't think you will be increasing the run at all...don't think an increase in size is needed. 10AWG/30 amp less than 50'...could be wrong, though.
Normal wiring codes will dictate #10 AWG, but there's a catch.
ABYC standards require voltage drop to be no more than 3% rated while operating in 167 degrees temp if cabling goes through engine room. To be on the safe side I always recommend going a "step" bigger. In this case I recommend #8 AWG.
Scorpio.
Remember to use only boat cable, keep cables suspended every 18" and as high as possible from bilge water.
If in ANY doubt please hire a boat electrician.
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Edited by - Cpt. Harold on Mar 08 2010 07:30:03 |
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vic33004
USA
1094 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2010 : 09:07:07
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a breaker is needed where the service enters the boat to protect the wire starting where it enters the boat from over current. in theory the shore power cable is protected by the breaker at the pedestal it is plugged into. the logic being that if you brought a larger cable and potentially larger amperage with it to the boat and stepped down at your power inlet you would still need to protect the cables downstream of the inlet on your boat from potential overcurrent. as others have noted a lock out of the other service inlet is required to avoid the other male end being hot at the same time.
if marine electrical work is not something you have experience in, it is money well spent to have a marine electrician either do this for you, or inspect your work before you energize it. |
Vic33004
02 Regal 4260 |
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Shadowcruzr
USA
10233 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2010 : 09:47:18
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Vic, you are accurate up to a point. The ruling is if the shore power inlet is more than 10 feet of wire away from the main breaker on the electrical panel then another breaker must be installed in that line between the inlet and the main panel breaker. It does not have to be right at the inlet.
You are only protecting the boat. You cant bring larger amerage to the boat. You can only draw more amperage thru the shore cord by turning on too much stuff on the boat. It doesnt matter what size wiring the cords are, if the breaker is 30 amps, it should (theoretically) trip when the boat draws more than 30 amps. Yes the extra breakers onthe boat protect the onboard wiring from the boat, not the shore. |
Paul
ETC, USCG, Ret
Dispite the suicide bombers and the burning desire to kill infidels, we are a peaceful religion... |
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Ironworks
USA
482 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2010 : 17:19:07
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| Nothing I have read here addresses the problem of the cord being in the water at high tide. If you add a connector to the starboard side so it is a shorter run you are making the problem worse. If it is out of the water at high tide it will be hanging from the pedestal and pulling out your new connector at low tide. You could use a power cord holder to keep it out of the water. You could make a holder using a mooring whip. You could buy a spring powered self retracting power cord reel. You could use submersible power cable and let it stay in the water. Trust me the location of your plug is not the problem. |
40'Inland Seas Steel Clipper |
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jtybt15
USA
21108 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2010 : 04:15:54
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Chris,
I like the idea of a retractable cord holder that keeps some tension...as long as you're close to the pedestal.
...or make your own custom placed retracting cord holder.
Email me. I got some designs worked up and reasons for them. |
Charlie
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Edited by - jtybt15 on Mar 09 2010 04:24:31 |
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MacInCt
USA
569 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2010 : 08:33:14
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Chris,
Have you given any thought to docking bow-in? |
Nancy
2003 Johnson 70 - Charmer |
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KiDa
USA
12800 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2010 : 08:43:41
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| A friend was looking at a 53 Carver Voyager. It had a 30 amp (or 2) forward on the gunwale starboard. Not sure about the port side. The breakers were co-located with the outlets. Pretty interesting setup. |
____________
Best Regards,
David
Saint Max
'99 330 Sundancer
==========
Capitalism is to this administration what Judaism was to the Third Reich.
-- Me |
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SCORPIO
USA
2021 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2010 : 06:50:09
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quote:
Originally posted by MacInCt
Chris,
Have you given any thought to docking bow-in?
I can't since we only have a short narrow finger pier on one side. If I dock bow in , I'd have to climb over the bow rail to get on and off. We also have about 5' of tidal range and non-floating docks.
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Chris USPS AP |
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SCORPIO
USA
2021 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2010 : 06:58:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Ironworks
Nothing I have read here addresses the problem of the cord being in the water at high tide. If you add a connector to the starboard side so it is a shorter run you are making the problem worse. If it is out of the water at high tide it will be hanging from the pedestal and pulling out your new connector at low tide. You could use a power cord holder to keep it out of the water. You could make a holder using a mooring whip. You could buy a spring powered self retracting power cord reel. You could use submersible power cable and let it stay in the water. Trust me the location of your plug is not the problem.
Actually, placing the inlet on the transom would allow me to use a cord holder and keep the cable run shorter. Now in order to get the cord from the pedestal around the slip to the port side, I have to run the cable along the dock and under the ladder to the port side inlet. We get about 4-5' of tidal range with non-floating docks, so having the cord attached to the dock itself actually puts it in the water sometimes. What I'm afraid of is the new aluminum ladders that were recently installed. The cord has to either go over it or under it to get to the inlet on the boat. I worry about a short and someone grabbing the ladder and getting shocked. If I can shorten the run from the pedestal to the inlet, I can elevate the cord and allow a drip loop that should keep it out of the water at all but flooding conditions. This is a compound problem of boat design and dock design and layout. If you could see a picture of the dock it would be clear what I'm talking about. I'll have to see if I have any pics that show what I'm describing. |
Chris USPS AP |
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Shore power connector relocation?